Leading Resilient Teams: Strategies for Driving Innovation and High Performance

Deirdre Sommerkamp
Moderator | VP, Solutions Consulting, Operations & Enablement
Anaïs Lempereur
SVP Finance - Streaming
Christine Johns
Executive Vice President and Chief Information Officer
Heather Natour
Sr. Director of Engineering, Consumer & Growth

Video Transcription

My name is Deirdre summer camp and I'm the VP of solutions consulting and sales enablement for upland sales effectiveness business. I'm delighted to be moderating our panel discussion today, leading resilient teams, strategies for driving innovation and high performance.Our three panelists for today's discussion are Anna is Lampe, senior vice president of Streaming at Paramount Heather Notor, senior director of engineering seller and consumer growth at open door. And Chris Johns, Executive Vice president and CIO at PNC Financial Services. Our panelists will share their insights and strategies for leading resilient teams in the critical role company culture and leadership plays in fostering innovation and high performance within their teams. They will draw from their extensive backgrounds in the fast paced tech industry.

When you have questions, please type them in the Q and A panel and I'll do my best to incorporate them during our discussion. Today. I'm going to ask each Panelist to do an introduction and give a brief overview of their role and explain how their team is structured. Anna is Heather and Chris. Welcome to the discussion. An East. Let's start off with you.

Um Hi everybody. Good afternoon. It's afternoon over here. In LA a little bit later probably where you are. Um uh as uh Dere said, so I am the, the SEP of Finance uh for streaming at uh Paramount where I focus on the Pluto TV business, which is the advertising supported side. Um I currently lead the finance and finance operations um a part of Pluto TV, um which is uh segment based. So we have different sort of pods if you will working as business partners of the Business

Heather and you? Hi. Um I'm Heather NATO. I've been in or open door for about three years and been working in software for about 25 years. Um And I lead the engineering for our consumer products and growth teams and um in case you're not familiar open doors and e-commerce residential platform uh for real estate where we provide customers with certain and simple solutions to buy and sell homes and in terms of how our teams are structured, we work cross functionally with product and design operations and marketing to build our customer experiences.

Excellent. And

Chris, hello everybody. Uh I am uh the chief information officer here at PNC uh re responsible for our asset management group. And what we do with an asset management is provide the uh wealth management solutions to our high net worth individuals, families and institutions. Um I too have over 25 years experience in engineering, software engineering in particular and uh within my organization, our teams are really organized into um agile product teams focused around experiences where we provide the technology services um that go from architecture and strategy through engineering delivery um and then into technology operations and support.

Awesome. Thank

you all. Um So let's start off with a few questions. So um Anna is, I'll have you start, what are some of the key characteristics of the resilient teams that you lead and how do you foster those traits of resilience within your teams?

Yeah. Um Absolutely. So a lot of the environments which I have worked in and which I currently actually work in are, are high growth. So, so what that means is that usually the job that you are given doesn't end up becoming your job for more than maybe 6 to 7 months before it starts either sort of expanding drastically because the business that you're supporting is growing, um or because sometimes the business that you're supporting is actually, you know, sort of changing.

And so resiliency is one of the most important characteristics, especially when you're working in those high growth environments because um the the pace of change um comes with a lot of challenges, right? So sometimes we, we have to be able to um just continue to go forward despite some things being, you know, not necessarily always exactly as we had planned. So for me, really resilience comes through sort of a number of key characteristics and, and a lot of it is is sort of, you know, built within the team knowing that you have a super strong structure that supports you um in the good times and also in the bad. Um but a few things which come to mind, sort of, which are more actionable are, first of all coming from a place of, of, yes. Right. So being solution oriented rather than just problem oriented, doesn't mean that we can't vent um many times, you know, we actually look towards our own sort of like organization to be able to have that like safe sounding board for us to talk about things. Um But really sort of trying to be really solution oriented to say, OK, so something is happening, how can I help in sort of, you know, getting a positive outcome? And then finally, one of the things for me is really around communication.

Um So, so resiliency um really isn't just about sort of like, you know, being able to stand back up when you're coming down, but also to be able to understand that there's a much bigger picture and have faith, um that, you know, sort of things are, are, are not necessarily always linear and that the path to success might have many ups and downs.

Awesome. Thank you. I, I love that. I think that is so true. The path to success definitely has many ups and downs, right? And that's really a key to resilience, especially the communication piece. I agree. With that. Um Heather, what are your

thoughts? Yeah, I think I just hits it. Uh, you know, spot on um those three characteristics of growth mindset, strong teamwork, strong foundations are really key and, you know, I couldn't agree more. And in fact, you know, Carol do I, uh it explains growth mindset as you know, a view that creates a love of learning and resilience that is essential for great accomplishment. And so, you know, that, that growth mindset is something that we try to foster through um uh architecture and coffee sessions as we call them every Friday where our engineers come together and share um ideas, challenges. We have a manager's book club, we even have a slack channel called growth mindset. And um these are places where uh people can come together and just think creatively uh think outside the box and, and um building that muscle is really important. Um you know, and, and as Anne said, that strong teamwork really does lead to that better communication. Um And o other ways that we try to um create more teamwork is by reducing the work in progress. So, very tactically, you know, there's a tendency to have a lot of work streams going on in progress and um by forcing us to work together on less things, um people are working together, they have a shared um understanding of um of the space.

So, you know, someone can go on vacation, someone can be sick and all things don't stop. And then, you know, the strong foundations that, you know, some of the ways that we've uh built that into our daily culture is, you know, basic things like solid observ, ability and quality practices. And, you know, many of you may be saying, well, yeah, obviously these are, these are uh table stakes, but it's also about um building in the, the kind of paranoia when things are good that, you know, we uh trust but verify we really um test that uh what we have as our foundation is solid and also building those processes of retrospectives and um raising risks where we need to.

So that when it really gets challenging, um these are automatic things that people have uh have practiced, you know, over, over time. Thank you for that. I

especially like the um Slack channel name that is phenomenal because you're keeping it at the front of their minds, right? Anytime they're in Slack, it's a great idea, Chris, anything you'd add.

Sure, I think some great points raised so far. So maybe I'll try to just build a little bit on uh some of the things that Heather and Anna have mentioned. Um For me, when I think about, you know, what is a resilient team or, or what kind of characteristics do you see in resilient teams? It's all about having that, that shared vision and mission um and a team that's gonna leverage the strengths of each other and really work together. So they're, they're connected, they're, they're collaborative um as a team and to really foster those traits. Um For me, uh what's been most important and what I've seen to be most effective is creating a, a trusting and transparent team environment. Um When you're in a situation where you need to demonstrate that resiliency um in the face of disruption or challenges is when it's most important to have already established. Um a really trusting and transparent team environment. Um And as my peers have mentioned, you know, clear communication is, is certainly key in doing that.

Um So for me and, and some of the things that I've done um with teams over the years um to create that, that trusting transparent environment is um you know, leading by example. So I, I don't, it's not easy to see here, but I um most of the time sit out on the floor in an open um environment with the team. Um There's a breaker room office I can use when you need to have those sensitive conversations. Um But by sitting out on the floor with the team, it breaks down some of those um mindsets around command and control and who's allowed to talk to who um and you, you learn a lot and you hear a lot um by just um being directly engaged with the team um on a daily basis. So that for me has been important um in a really effective way um to create a more flat feeling organization, even if there is a hierarchy to the organization. Um Additionally, um really deliberate about making sure there's plenty of time in all hands meetings or, or leadership meetings for Open Q and A. Um We're really transparent. Um We use uh different tools like uh uh like pigeonhole as an example um to make all of the questions visible. Um And we answer them so you can't hide from the tough questions.

Um And it's OK to say, I don't know um the answer to that question, but I'm gonna follow up. Um I'll get back to you and then, you know, similarly um leverage techniques like uh just small coffee chats or an open door policy. Um Welcome sessions with new hires where we just spend, you know, 30 minutes chat and getting to know each other, all of which helps to establish that open transparent environment um which I found to be crucial to have um when you need to demonstrate that resilience because then you've created an environment where people are gonna be, feel safe about sharing their concerns, um raising problems um and, and bringing their ideas forward

makes sense. Um

So I love that when I think of what you mentioned, right? The disruptive events and challenges that threaten the team's resilience. I would love to hear a little bit more. Um Chris, why don't we start with you with what additional strategies you use to maintain the focus and momentum across your team.

Sure. So I think, um, you know, when something comes up and, and in our industry and the technology, something always comes up. So it's, uh, it's, it's more common I think than uh unusual to be faced with some sort of challenge or some type of disruption. It's just the, the nature of them that changes. Um, I would, my best advice is during those times, um There's no such thing as communication. All right. So it's really important to keep folks um feeling like they are in the know that they understand what is going on, why it's happening, why we're doing what we're doing, how we're dealing with whatever it is that we're dealing with. Um So being really, really generous um with information, with sharing um as much as you have uh in different ways because people will, will uh consume that information uh differently. Um But really being laser focused on keeping folks connected to what's going on, feeling like they're informed.

And so there's no mystery um to what's going on and then understanding the why behind um the choices that we're making, what we, what is most important, why it's most important, what can give, why it can give um so that they feel empowered on a day to day basis, to be part, to be making the local decisions um that they need to make um in order to keep things on track,

great strategies and it is, what would you add?

Yeah, he's just, just really excellent points. And I really, um, follow a lot of the same, those same principles. Chris Commu communication for me is extremely important because I really do believe that, um, teams that work, well, actually feel as though they are being considered as, you know, the people and not just sort of a number on an org chart and that really comes with being able to have those open communications, especially when things um are, are highly ambiguous, right?

Like for example, when the economy is in the shape where it is right now, right, there's a lot of anxiety around, you know, the future and things that and so it's really important for us as leaders, not only to, to communicate, but also to be realistic, right? So not to consistently sort of, you know, it's like overpromise or, or be excessively sort of, you know, um um positive sometimes it's actually really good to acknowledge the fact that something is happening that something is tough but that we have sort of everybody's best interests in mind and that they should feel as though they're leader understands enough about the business that they support and the people who they have, do they have under their purview to make responsible decisions, um which uh which they would themselves support.

I think the the other thing which, which really comes to mind when we're thinking about sort of like resiliency and challenges and things like that is really going back to also what Chris said around the mission and the vision. So, um when we're thinking about sort of like, especially sort of in my world, right on, on, on the finance side of everybody is looking at sort of like the business management side. Um There's like, there's revenue on one side which is really fun to grow and then there's expense on the other side, which is really not fun to cut. Um But the truth is that when you work with your organization to foster really good habits and very positive revenue times, um it becomes much easier to have conversations about sort of like expense reduction um when, you know, sort of the, the, the the tides turn. So I think really understanding sort of the mission division of the why is, is what allows people to um feel more comfortable and confident in their leaders and ultimately like create that long term growth mindset as Heather was

saying, impact, I love that, I

think um acknowledging and validating there's so much power in that because then you can go, you could move forward, right? Once you acknowledge um Heather, what strategies do you employ?

Yeah, it's really the same thing. Um For, for us, the why is about starting and ending with the customer and the open door? That's one of our most important operating principles is to start and end with the customer. And so, you know, when we keep our customers top of mind, their fears, their dreams, their challenges and, you know, in our business, we're, we're talking about pretty significant life events when we're transacting, transacting on residential real estate. And we're really able to transcend our own challenges and continue to focus on what's most important to us. Our mission is uh focused around our customers and then, you know, just uh piling on to, to Chris and Anna, you know, people first culture is really key, especially in these challenging times, you know, II I love this quote I found from Cornell West. He said, uh you can't leave the people if you don't love the people and you know, that empathy, that deep empathy for your people for what they need for, you know, it, it's, you know, why we focus on that communication is for them, you know, so that they can be empowered to do their jobs well, to make great decisions that um that they are aligned to our um mission.

And OKRS is, is how uh they are able to maintain that focus and drive forward, you know, rowing in the same direction. Thank you. I love that

quote that you shared. So key. Um let's stick with you for a moment. Talk to me a little bit about how you foster a culture of innovation and creativity within your team. And are there any pitfalls that you would um suggest avoiding.

Yeah. Um I, I love this. It's always a challenge, especially when you're driving towards deadlines and, you know, shorter term goals. But I also think it's so important for um people to build in thinking time, you know, and it's that, that moment of quiet, whether it's on a run in the shower, um built into your schedule for an hour. Um that is where you get those epiphanies and those moments of inspiration. And, um and, and so that's gotta be sustainable, right? We've gotta be able to do that on a regular basis. And sometimes we have to remind ourselves of doing that and remind each other. And so, um creating uh uh opportunities for people to work with others that they don't usually work with. And our team, we, we recently ran what we call the Collab Aon where, um you know, it's a, a challenging time. We, we have uh really aggressive goals, but we still wanted to create the, you know, the hackathon, but it's a, as a way more where the primary goal was to work with people you don't usually work with, to learn about um areas of the product that you don't usually work on. And so, uh we um took three days and built things that were Shipp that moved towards our Q two goals, but people really had fun building really quickly, got the feeling of shipping quickly, you know, not forgetting that how much they can accomplish in a few days and, you know, it was, uh, highly successful, very fun.

We want to do it again, uh, often and, you know, that's, that's the key is how do we do that in a recurring way where it's not the once a year hackathon and done? But, um, how else can you, uh, make it a habit? I love that

ongoing collab collab aon. Is that what you called it?

Yeah, that's,

that's amazing. I love that idea. Might still that one. Chris, what are your thoughts?

Uh Then I'm also gonna steal the collab Aon idea because I love it as well. I think it's great. Um For me, I think one of the, one of the key things when you think about innovation, sometimes um people's heads immediately go to the big disruptive um innovation and you need to sometimes remind everybody that innovation can happen daily. I mean, Heather some key points there about, you know, Shipp products. Um and, and, and, and Shipp work um in innovation can be really, really small things that have a big impact and that's a great type of innovation because it doesn't take you long to get there. Um It doesn't take a lot of effort. So I think for me, it's really about a multi pro um the big, wow, events are fun and energizing. So I wouldn't suggest eliminating those, but certainly augment it with um little things to showcase the small wins um spotlight and highlight um those examples of where somebody or a team came up with um a way to just work differently. Um And, and more easily and, and, and eliminate some of the blockers um or to improve a process so that they, you know, shaved an hour off of a, a 10 hour or a 20 hour process, whatever incremental value that it had or, or simplified the code, um just took some steps to make something more maintainable.

All of those are different types of innovation or I think we should think of those as different types of innovation because there are new ways of doing things that are generating value, um possibly just for the team, possibly for the department, possibly for the whole business.

But all of those are really valuable and I think when you start um tackling it in, in very different ways um and celebrating and recognizing those, those little things that have um an impact um whether that impacts uh big or small, it's, it's a positive impact. Um You start to generate that, that habit um that Heather was talking about which is really um the key because it's, it's a, it's a mindset, it, it's a culture um that you need to, to create,

completely agree and it is, what are your thoughts?

I mean, it's tough, you know, coming up after these super smart ladies who have so many great ideas, I'm trying to think about maybe like a fun one that I could add, which hasn't been, which hasn't been discussed. So um something which so my organization, as I was speaking about earlier, they're, they're segment based. So I have sort of a pod which is focused, for example, on the marketing side of the business, another pod which is focused on technology and products. Another one which is focused on content analytics, for example. And so one of the things which has worked really, really well in um so my past companies is is creating rotational programs. And so what this rotational program allows is that somebody who has really sort of achieved a level of success and, and, and obviously sort of um trains themselves over the entirety of one business area can actually, you know, hop into another business area as a way in which they're actually able to continue to grow their career, their strength and continue to get promoted.

And so one of the things which I like to tell my teams is that if, if you do make a process which is too complicated, you're never going to be able to pawn it off, right. So if you do something which actually, you know, inject innovation and inject uh automation and really sort of create something which is seamless, then you're able to pass it on to somebody else, which means that now your plate is free to do, you know, more high value activity and I think that one of the things which we have in our team is a very sort of healthy amount of like internal competition and like pride of ownership.

And that really comes with, I would say two big things. So the first one is avoiding all types of micromanagement, right? So to be very clear about the why we're doing things, but allowing people to actually have that space to figure out how we're gonna get there. And then the, the second thing is to reward positive behaviors, right? So sometimes we take it for granted that's sort of like good work can sometimes just go unnoticed and it's the bad work that gets punished instead be very clear about like the reward happens when um you know, people sort of push themselves a little bit outside of their comfort zones.

Love that, love

that focusing on the reward and the those positive behaviors. Absolutely. OK. So let's talk a little bit about um cross functional collaboration and alignment. How do you promote that across your team? I know that Heather mentioned collab Aon. But what are some other ways? Um Let's go with Anna is,

I'll go first. Um Yes. So in, in my organization, um it's probably a little bit different than if we're in the tech world. So, um you know, most people, most um um um chiefs of business, so CMO S or CTO S or CPO S, they don't necessarily think that why would I have the finance person in my staff meeting? Right? Um And so the, the goal of my organization is to get into that staff meeting and getting into that staff meeting doesn't happen because you push yourself in. It happens because you actually earn the seat at the table. And what I say is that the way in which that happens is that we actually have something that, that organization values enough to actually want to be um want us to be part of those discussions. And so we have so much information as a finance and FPN a organization, but many times like it's stuck in a spreadsheet. So think about like how that narrative can become much more of a story and take in a sense, maybe even like a marketing approach as to how are we going to work with our internal brand, right?

And become those people who use our finance a as a skill set, but our narrative ability as the way in which we're communicating and that actually wants them to have us suspend them having that seat at the table. And I think more important than anything um with modern organization as we're building forecasts for, you know, huge conglomerates with very complex businesses. Um a couple of other businesses which I worked on before Paramount where um where um Spotify, you know, in the time when that company was going public as well as Caesars Entertainment. So these are huge conglomerates and it really is around figuring out how to incorporate the business thoughts and the leadership thoughts into the numbers and not creating numbers that then you need to put basically strategies into. So anything that ends up sort of in our business cases to our board, et cetera have already had full business ownership. Right? And so that really involves asking a lot of people for a lot of different opinions and once you ask for those opinions, you actually have to follow through with at least consideration.

Thank you for that. Um Heather, let's go to you and then Chris, I'll have you chime in.

Sure. Yeah. You know, I open door, recall our teams e pods and that um that is uh engineering, product operations and design. And so we embedded our cross functional collaboration um really into the core of how we work that said, I think it's more similar than one would think to what Anne was describing. And I love the rotational program and um you know how she uh uh really embodied, uh you know, working together toward a common goal, regardless of role and responsibility. And, you know, it's very similar to what we do. We, you know, we uh define how we work more as a team, a cross functional team. Um And everybody is clear on what the roles and responsibilities are, but we encourage team members to assume other roles to um you know, an engineer can play a product role or a design role and vice versa, you know, to the extent that we can, and it, it really gets the best ideas, the best thinking out of the team.

Um and doesn't pigeonhole people where they don't feel like, you know, it's their place or um you know, I if you are truly, um if you truly understand the why, if you truly understand the goals, the metrics, then that unites, you know, the team and um they can, they can go in and out of these roles.

And in fact, we have an uh a product manager um in our organization who has played the engineer role, the product role and the operations role as her actual job. Um as she jokes, she's, you know, epo of the E POD already. Um And so, you know, that can translate to actual career changes, you know, similar to, to I think what was mentioned before as well. So um uh II I think regardless of the, whether it's engineering or finance, you see very similar things, uh things sorry about how, you know, how a team works as a high performing cross functional group.

Um So it's, it's funny when I think back to the choices I made to study engineering in, in college, I mean, I loved math and science. That part was easy. Um But I was also pretty shy and I'm an introvert and I thought, oh, this is perfect. I can do uh my thing, I'll get my work. I'll sit at my computer and, and that's a great fit for me. It couldn't have been more um you know, wrong about what the environment's like. Um technology, software engineering is very much a team sport um as, as much um teamwork as, as, as any other kind of discipline you'll find out there. And so the collaboration is incredibly important um in order to make that work, I think, one of the, the fascinating and, and kind of beautiful things about software engineering is that no matter what you're working on, most of the time, somebody else has already figured out how to do what you're trying to do.

Um So it's all about getting value delivery as quickly as possible. And the more you collaborate, the more you are likely to figure out that somebody else already has the answer or maybe the piece of code um or the reusable microservice or whatever it is that you can just take and use um in order to get to that value delivery as, as quickly as possible.

So, we've been um really focused on driving more and more collaboration to identify those opportunities. Um And, and to highlight those and we've, we've done um something um that we call um the creation of a champion groups. So, um we've taken folks um and kind of seeded uh what will ultimately become a little bit more of a, of a community, but we've, we've hand selected some folks um in, in key areas of focus that are important to us. Um uh you know, intelligent automation, uh cloud native development, uh DEV ops and, and the pipeline and, and development acceleration, things like that. Topics like that. We've hand picked folks from across the organization um who are passionate about those topics and knowledgeable about those topics and to some extent, I would say kind of forced collaboration among that small group just kicked it off, jumpstarted, it got it going. Um And then from there, you know, sometimes really all you need to do is light a little bit of that spark. Um And it's amazing to see how it, how it takes off. Um So I guess my, my one suggestion for folks is don't be afraid to or, or don't hesitate to maybe um I'm gonna use the word force. It's a little harsh but um you know, orchestrate the collaboration a little bit.

Um It will then uh gain a life of its own and, and, and support itself um with a little bit of a, a little bit of a head start.

I love that.

Yeah, that makes so much sense. All right. So if we think about, you know, our fast paced and ever changing tech landscape, it's, there's always something new. How do you balance innovation with stability and continuity and what role does your leadership play in this? Um Chris I'll have you start and then we'll go over to Heather.

Sure. So I think, um you know, what, what comes to, to mind first for me is something uh and I used to kind of hit on earlier and she's talking a little bit about, you know, the importance of just being honest and, and transparent and, and authentic. Um that for me is important here as well, right? So the more clear you can be the more open you are with information um about what's going on. Um The easier it is then to help make sure that you're effectively balancing um innovation, stability and, and continuity. So, um I think that's really important. The other thing that I'll, I'll highlight that we haven't talked about as much yet. Um That I think is helpful. Um You know, as we think about this topic as well is um creating that culture of continuous learning. So the more folks know, the more they're growing, it comes back to the that growth mindset that Heather mentioned as well. Um But creating space for the learning um because I, I don't know about you, but the number one thing I hear and have heard over the years is I don't have time um because people still sometimes think about learning as this separate thing that I need to go to training for two days where it can happen in two minutes um as part of a, a team activity or sitting next to somebody.

Um So I think creating that culture of continuous learning um then just helps folks um have those skills and be able to, you know, just be effective when they're thinking about um innovating, when they're thinking about stabilizing. Um And when you're trying to just kind of keep that, that, that continuity um when things are, are Contin continuously changing in terms of priority, having a few anchors um in your culture um can be really powerful.

Thank you and Heather.

Yeah. And um you know, I think a couple of different types of innovation um uh have been mentioned and I think it's important to not treat it all similarly. So, you know, one thing that we do organizationally is for these very big, highly iterative uh bets uh where we're still trying to find part product market fit, we ring fence them. So we give them a lot of uh uh space and time um and focus to can be a start up within a start up and iterate quickly um experiment uh take a market and do whatever they want with it. And then at the same time for our core products, we still wanna innovate. But um as you said, you know, we need to do it in uh in, in a way that it still builds with stability and continuity. And so it's important to do those incremental investments um along with those feature requirements, along with um the the new products. So finding those places where you can pair the two together, you know, if we're going to be working in this space, is that actually a great time to also invest in the platform that can uh be the sustainable platform for new products or new ways of building.

And so, um from a leadership perspective, I think we need to be able to connect those dots, you know, see those connections where um others may not have that context and bring people together to identify that to build that. And then um uh I think Chris alluded to this as well as you know, I I in terms of transparency, this needs to be a top level. Okr, this can't be something you're doing under the table, but rather getting alignment um cross functionally with your leadership um to really show the value, the business value of investing in these scalable platforms, investing in um you know, stronger foundations. Um These are things that drive business value and can be attributed to real key results.

Thank you. Uh We don't have any um questions, but if anyone does have questions, you want to put them in the Q and A, we have time probably for one more um question. Let's go with um Anna is how do you create a sense of accountability and ownership within your team? What are some of the strategies that you use to ensure that everyone on the team is working towards the same common

goals? Uh Yeah, sure.

Like, it's always like a three prong approach because it allows us to sort of, you know, stay focused. So the first one is really, they have to know where we're trying to go. So going back to the whole like mission vision reason for which we're doing things, understanding that big picture. I spend a lot of my days talking about the business and that allows me to spend less of my time when we're actually trying to solve the problem. Um like going back and forth to try and figure out if we're, we're to our analysis is, is basically like what we actually asked for because the team has really, really, really high context on to why they do things. Um sort of the second thing which is, I think maybe self evident, but sometimes, especially in sort of larger organizations, it can get lost is having a single owner. So even for example, in our, in our day to day processes as well as like projects or things that we're actually, you know, doing or working on, even though you never work on your own, nothing is ever done by one person, there's always one specific owner. And so it makes it so much easier for either leadership, but also for the team to understand that um basically, they're, they're working towards a common goal, but one person is, is shepherding that. And then I think the last piece is really giving opportunities for visibility.

Um It's extremely important, especially in sort of like the early to mid careers that um um our team members are given those opportunities to shine and also sometimes to, you know, maybe not do so well in certain situations, which will allow them to, you know, understand um how to better prepare the next time.

Right? I think that if we, if we sort of shelter uh team members from those, those opportunities to actually meet with different leaders and look at different leadership styles and learn from different leaders that way. Um It's really important for them to have those opportunities and sometimes we have to some, sometimes we have to as leaders go out of our way to create them and not just always hope that they're going to sort of, you know, materialize on them by

themselves. Excellent. Thank

you. Well, thank you. Um to all three of you for a great discussion today. I know that I have certainly taken away some great strategies, um resilient teams. It's, it just makes a ton of sense. So thank you for sharing your knowledge. Um And thank you to our participants today who joined in our panel discussion. Hopefully you took away some great tips as well. Thank you so much.

Thank you. Thank

you.