For everyone who wants to learn about different stereotypes and myths and, and um as we women attack the stereotypes upon us from not being technically minded enough to not being, to being unable to cope with some demands of the job so that our gender and ethnicities can dictate the positions we apply for and hold on how we climb.

Join Diana Bellis. Hi,

Diana. Hi, Anna, how are you?

I'm good. Super excited about your presentation. Diana

Tabby's, it was so good.

Absolutely. And um John Taana, she will debunk some of the common myth believed about women attack and that we sometimes believe ourselves and will provide practical strategies for how to overcome the stereotypes. Diana is an experienced product leader and VP of client services at IR Software Technology.

She spent most of her career in financial services and transitions into cybersecurity in 2019. So, Diana, the slides are here and the stage is all yours. We will take some questions if you have time at the end of your session. Amazing.

Thank you so much, Anna. So, so hi everyone. Thank you for joining me today. So as Anna said, I'm Taana Bees and I'm VP client services here at EU Software Technologies. And I'm here today to talk about some of the stereotypes we face as women in the tech industry. And just, um you know, my experience was about how to deal with them. I'll just talk about my career journey and how I navigated through some of the challenges of not just working but studying in technology as well and to find those opportunities that helped me grow. So for me personally, um I think I was fortunate when I was growing up because I went to an all girls school and as many of, you know, nothing teaches you how to face challenges more than a school full of teenage girls. Um But what I loved about going to an all girls school was that the decision on what subjects to study. And um you know, if I was capable enough to do them, there was no undercurrent of inability if I picked a stem subject because just because I was a girl, right? So in an all girls school, you pick a subject just because you want to do it.

There's no, there's no stigma that comes with picking arts or science. You were at the luxury of picking whatever you felt like you were best suited at. Now, as with most Asian families, education was a priority and it didn't matter if you're a boy or a girl, you know, everyone had to go to university and get what my parents called a proper degree. Um, and I used to always joke that the opportunity to be a disappointment to your parents never discriminated in Asian families. But after not getting into law, I found myself, um, really re evaluating what professional future I wanted. And surprisingly, computer science was a quick decision for me.

Um, always having been a sci fi queen and loving gadgets and believe it or not getting into computer science in the mid nineties wasn't as hard as it is today. Um Sadly, I don't think much has changed in the last 25 years. And women still only account for about 15 to 18% of students studying computer science or a related degree. And I remember how every year the number of women who made it into the next year would half. And by the time I was actually in my final year, I think I was only one of, you know, a dozen of women left on that computer science course. And it was at university where I really started seeing the misconceptions and stereotypes creeping into my every day. So that so called programmer culture. And, you know, I'd never been partial to coding. I, it's not my thing, but I always preferred the more analytical subjects um of, of computer science. So that is where one of the biggest and sketch of conceptions we hear in technology, women aren't technical enough. Now, you don't have to be a programmer or a math genius to work in technologies, right, the opportunities in tech are are varying and rewarding. And because while coding skills are important, the human element as such as creativity and thinking outside the box and adapting to change is equally as important. If not more so to create a diverse workforce, you'll see presales and product management.

For instance, our growth disciplines for women in um you know, the US, especially in Europe and it requires greater interpersonal skills as you bridge the gap between the business and the tech. So as well as core competence, co core competencies, um technical ones like translating business requirements into technical requirements and market assessments, you know, product managers and these presales, engineers, they need more emotional intelligence as you need to navigate and cultivate strong relationships internally within your organization, but also externally with customers and their pain points.

There was an interview with um Sam lesson. He was a former VP um of product that Facebook and he said he was never successfully able to train empathy, right? So you can get more technical, you can upskill yourself technically. But actually, it's those soft skills of empathy and understanding that I think is quite inherent in women that is harder to, to learn um which makes us great assets in technology. So I would challenge the stereotype that women aren't technical enough to be in technology because women bring so much more to the technical industry. Um than just technical skills. I do remember when I returned back to my second year of university and one of the boys on the course came up to me and say, hey, it's so great to see you. I'm so surprised you made it, you know, I mean, this, this is the kind of things that women, girls get all the time in these more male dominated technical environments. But I used that exchange that day to like really spur me on. So I knew I had to make sure that when I graduated, I would have something else to offer from those boys who think they are more technical than me. So when I was at university, for example, I applied for internships um in the summer.

So and I worked at a prestigious financial brokerage firm as a business and intern so that when I graduated, I didn't just have my technical degree, but I had some work experience. I had other things to offer and we need to make sure that we're creating opportunities for our own selves to excel and set ourselves apart. Since then, I've been fortunate enough to have a great career in technology for the last 20 years. But does that nagging little feeling of self doubt ever go away? It's estimated that 70% of women will experience imposter syndrome at some point in their lives. And it was really interestingly um listening to the la last talk about the origin of imposter syndrome as well. Lots of amazing women that we look up to like Sheryl Sandberg to Michelle Obama have admitted to feeling like a fraud or questioning if they are good enough. And I had the great privilege of seeing Michelle Obama on her book tour becoming at the 02 in London a couple of years ago. And the answer to am I good enough is yes, I am. And we need to harness that feeling of self doubt to push us to be better. Because if we doubt ourselves, even when we're doing the right things, then we are doomed to feel like an impostor.

So as we heard, fake it if you have to, but we need to push through that lack of physical representation, I think is one of the main main big factors that feeds into imposter syndrome. So particularly for women, women of color, right? If we don't see representation that's feeding into it. And according to a 2019, lean in lean in research, women are less likely to be hired and promoted to manager. And for every 100 men brought into teams and elevated to management position, only 72 women experience the same thing.

Men hold 62% of manager level positions while women only hold 38% right? And this is why we need to challenge the status quo and create that all important representation and diversity ourselves. So if you know someone in your current organization or another that can help you overcome that feeling of self doubt, lean into them, like, learn from them. Most women have been where you are and have felt if not still feeling what you feel. Um There is a great quote from Mindy Kaling that really resonates with me. I love Mindy Kaling. I don't know about you. I absolutely adore her. But, um, you know, she talked about imposter syndrome and she said I do not feel an iota of imposter syndrome because I've worked so hard for my success and it's been such a challenging and hard road. So for her, it wasn't so much. Am I qualified to be here? But am I going to be accepted here? Which is very, very interesting. She regularly tweets unapologetically about being questioned about imposter syndrome and how women must pretend um she doesn't have imposter syndrome. So, you know, she, she tweets all the time that, you know, a woman will have to apologize if she doesn't feel like she has imposter syndrome. Otherwise she risks looking um arrogant.

But I think, um you know, men in the same position of power, it's accepted that he belongs there and he never gets questioned about imposter syndrome. And I think, you know, we, we should take it upon ourselves to go. Hey, we are good enough. We do belong here and try and really push that feeling of self doubt and that imposter syndrome down, especially as we advance in our um career. So I love Mindy. She is an inspiration to women and she just goes from strength to strength and I'm loving everything that she's doing. So she, you know, she's really somebody I will look up to and see what she's doing and the, the glass ceilings that she's breaking. I think she was named Times um most influential women as well this year, which was amazing. Um Another misconception that I face is work life balances only for women. You know, I used to get those questions all the time. How do you cope with working and being a mom? And I'm pretty sure I will cope the same way. My husband copes with being a working dad very, very badly. No. But, you know, women and men both have to work and raise their families together. The the, you know, the old ways of the men working and the women staying home to go after the Children. They, they, they, they do exist.

But women working women are now, you know, we are there doing it together with the fathers and I think men are absolutely stepping up helping out on the home side as well. And, but the the the truth is though women are affected more than men when becoming a parent, we're the ones who have to temporarily pause and I like to use the word pause and not stop or break our career. So we can focus on physi physically growing the baby and birthing the baby and, and it's, I think it's wonderful that, you know, nature has dealt that hand to women. II, I have absolutely loved being a mom and the whole process and I loved it. But it, it is a pause and for me personally having Children, made me more determined to advance my career and to be an example to both my daughter and my son, to show that women can work and be a mother and we shouldn't be judged for it or questioned and everyone does it differently.

So I try not to take the stereotype as a negative thing, said I use it to motivate myself and inspire other women, particularly younger women who haven't yet started on that journey and to show them that it it is normal to be a working mother. There are challenges but you shouldn't be made to feel inadequate that you're sacrificing one for the other. This is the, the life we live now and this is, this is how, how we, how we do it. Um I remember a couple of Halloweens ago and I had a really busy day at work and I was in back to back meetings with customers and the executive leadership team and I was leaving um work that day and I just made a very off offhand comment that it's time to call it quits. I have to go home and carve some pumpkins with my kids because they've been really looking forward to it. And one of the younger um technical engineers um turned around and said it was so inspiring to see me transition from that woman in the office who is going to meetings and having those important discussions with CTS and CPS and then just go, ok. It's now time to go home and be a mom and Carl Pumpkins like it was no big deal. And the, the truth is that it, it, it isn't, you know, transitioning from being a working woman to then being mom.

It, it, it shouldn't be a big deal that it's part of what I am, who I am. And it's something that, that I do and I'm, I'm able to and I'm glad to be able to pass that to the next generation for them to see that representation that, you know, someone is a hard working mom, but she's still going home with the kids and, and, and doing it there. I mean, 41% of women leave the tech field within their 10th year compared to only 17% of men. Now, why, why is that, you know, work life balance applies to both men and women. My husband also works in technology and we are both equally caring and raising our Children. Do I have to do more of the cooking show? But I love cooking. So it's ok. I'm not so sure he loves taking out the rubbish and clearing the drains, but that's what he has to do. But my advice is you're always going, you, you know, you're always making these conscious decisions. You know, I'm not fortunate or lucky to have a husband that can take care of the kids. I chose to be with someone who I knew would take care of the kids and support my career just as I support his career.

So working in technology actually affords us the luxury of being able to work remotely and have a work life balance. It's definitely helped me. My sister is a doctor and she physically has to treat patients. And you know, as you know, in these last few years that has made the work life balance that little bit harder for working mothers. So I actually think um working in technology has allowed me to be able to do both, be a, you know, a hard working woman, but also a mother and not have to sacrifice anything. Um The next thing I want to cover is never. So this is about grasping opportunities. So never underestimate the power of building your network and the opportunities that it can bring to you, be sure to use all the resources you have available like linkedin and reach out to your network. If you find yourself um in a position where you need to lean on people for career progression, there are tips and tricks to ensure your profile gets the traction that it needs. So don't be shy. I mean, so I've been put at risk of redundancy a couple of times in, in my career and in my, um, at the first time I was put at risk of redundancy, it was a big organization.

Um, they were, you know, trimming the fat and cutting things making leaner and my role was at risk for it. And I actually leaned into my internal work network. So, um, you know, when I was put at risk, I said, ok, that's fine. What I'm going to do is just lean in there because for every one role that was going, there was another one coming up. So I leaned on my internal network and I actually reached out to some of the amazing women that I had, um worked with in my company who I knew were looking. And as soon as they had heard that, you know, I was looking for another opportunity, they put me in touch with their management. And I actually ended up getting an amazing new role that gave me a better challenge and more opportunity. So it really does work in your favor having, you know, building that network. Um, in those opportunities. The, the second time I was actually put at risk of redundancy, I personally actually wanted a change this time and, and a challenge. So, uh, uh, you know, I had worked in finance for a long time. So I took that opportunity to make a change in my life. Right.

So the second time I actually had Children and I thought, well, if I'm going to be working, I want to do something meaningful um that I'm going to enjoy, that gives back. And so this gave me the perfect opportunity for it. I was able to take some precious few months off work and spend it with my family, do improv classes and kind of improve myself and really think about what I wanted to do next. Um And so ending up where I am today at egress was really serendipitous, you know. So in the interview process, I was unsure about a role in cybersecurity. It was very different from what I had done before having spent most of my career in finance. And I, and I didn't have much experience, but my would be manager and the chief product officer at the time, took the time to explain the role and what I would bring to that company, you know. So he has said that he had the cybersecurity knowledge, but not that product knowledge which I absolutely could bring to that company. And it's important when looking for new opportunities that you realize the interview process works both ways for you to know that you're making the right decision.

So, um so I, I just want to cover how you can build your network and grasp opportunities during that interview process. So I would ask to meet potential colleagues. This is probably more important now that people are working from home and most of your interviews are being handled so remotely and not in the office where you could potentially see what the office is like and the um environment is like and this can work for you in multiple ways.

Right? First, it will help you understand more about the company and the role that you're applying for and to see if it's the right fit. But second and more importantly for you, I think it will help make a further impression with others in the team in your interview process and build that rapport. So if you're then interviewing with others, they, they can help you in that interview process. Um You know, when I was interviewing a couple of years ago, so three years now, actually, before this role, there was another role um that I was quite keen on. And when I went through the interview process, it actually revealed a huge unconscious bias. But that was very obvious to me as a woman. And I went through four rounds of interviews and in those four rounds, I was interviewed by 10 different men, nine out of the 10 who were white. And you know, for me personally, it was very obvious um that, you know, the diversity wasn't great. So kind of going into this interview, it's not just them interviewing you, but also you assessing what you're looking for. If it is it the right fit So use that interview process to learn as much as you can about the company, the role and that culture fit as well. So it's really, really important um And definitely helped me.

Um And finally, um what I wanted to talk about is how to grasp opportunities is to get a sponsor. So I know we hear a lot about mentorship and advocacy, which is very, very important as well. Um But one of the things that I have found that has helped me in my career progression has been getting a sponsor. Um this is uh Carla Harris and, you know, she said, you know, she, she, she has a great ted talk. I highly recommend listening to that. And you know, that there's this myth that the workplace is often presented as a meritocracy where you can succeed by putting your head down and working hard. So, Carla, who a Wall Street veteran learned very early in her career, that this is a myth, right? And what was the key to actually getting ahead? And it was getting a sponsor, a person who will speak on your behalf in those top level closed door meetings that you are not invited to yet? Right. And um I I this rings really, really true for me because I absolutely have a sponsor where I am who has helped me with my career. Um And a couple of years ago when I was relatively new to the company, and I had joined as a senior product manager.

There was an annual executive meeting which my manager, that then chief product officer he couldn't attend because he was on holiday in Italy, drinking wine and eating truffles. And he requested that I attend the meeting on his behalf. And when I asked him if there was anything he needed me to do in preparation for it, he said, no, he just wanted me to have a seat at the table because there was an opportunity for me to do so. He said, take it all in and learn as much as I can so that I was visible and I was being represented at those meetings. Um, you know, and that, that was career changing for me. You know, that exposure is career changing. The fact that I had this advocate and sponsor who would give me that seat at the table, um when he didn't have to. So, you know, I've worked really hard in the process and since then, you know, having that sponsorship and um having him talk on sponsor me in those closed door meetings and talk on my behalf. I've, I've since then, was made director of product management. And then last year I was actually made VP of client services when my sponsor moved into a new role as chief customer officer, where we were trying to um make some changes.

And my aim is to be an advocate for and sponsor others as they have continued to advocate for and sponsor me as well, especially in those um closed door meetings. So we still have a long way to go to balance the scales. But when you have the support and the opportunity arises, please please grab it because you are um good enough. So thank you for listening. I've left about four or five minutes um for questions, if anybody has any questions.

Thanks Tana. That was a fantastic presentation. And I think what will happen right now is that Mandy Ken will get some Twitter followers, Carla Harris will get some viewings and I learned so much together with our fantastic participants. I think something that I want to highlight that having an advocate and sponsor to give us a seat at the table will be care life changing for our career like it was for you in the case that you shared.

Yeah, absolutely. It, it has been career wise, it's been game changing just having that sponsor, someone who will put you first and talk about you when there may be other people in the room and they may have their own sponsor, someone that's kind of fighting your battles for you. Definitely. Absolutely.

Here. Let's take one question a little bit over time. But I would like to take this one question. How comfortable was it, was it for you to switch between these roles? Being a mom and a working woman?

Yeah, and that's a great, that's a great question. Right. So I was very privileged that in the UK we have a long maternity period. So I was able to spend um, a long time with my Children when they were bored. I spent about nine months off work where I was able to focus on being a mom and really get to grips because being a mother is hard and nothing can prepare you for you. It is hard work. Um, you know, so being able to take that time off work knowing that I could go back with no issues. I mean, I could focus on being a mom. So that when nine months later, I was going back to being a working mom, I was ready. I was mentally ready. I was no longer struggling at being a new mom. I was just a mom now, I wasn't a new mom. So I was then able to transition back from being just a working woman to a working mom because I was comfortable, I knew what the baby needed. But I also was comfortable at work and I knew how to work. So definitely having the time to focus on the baby um helped me then transition to that role.

And every day you learn something new about being a working mom and I'm pretty sure all moms can relate to their all working mothers and I'm sure you can relate to

that so that you learn about how we had a really brief chat with you. You know, when uh when I reached out to you to invite you to speak, we had a really brief chat and they kind of exchange this uh topic briefly. But yeah, thank you so much. Thank you so much, Diana today was fantastic to have you with us. I see that so many people share that resonated with them and that they really love your session today and I will share your linkedin because there are more questions in case they want to connect

if you got any questions.

Absolutely great. Thank you. Ta have a great day. Stay with us at the

event. It's been amazing.

Thank you. Thank you very much.