I want to say hi to everyone here. My name is Tia Maani. I support the media Engineering group at Bloomberg. I'm joining you today from a small conference room in our headquarter office in New York City at Bloomberg.My teams are responsible for a lot of the tech systems needed to author and share news data, video and other content with consumer audiences as well as syndication partners around the world. To elaborate. This includes all the tech systems used by our newsroom, editors, journalists, and other members to draft new stories to distribute the content to the various clients including web mobile connected devices and also other ways of engaging users like via newsletters, podcast, live streaming, et cetera.

The teams also support Bloomberg's marketing websites, various Bloomberg, philanthropy sites. Bloomberg connect um and infrastructure. Prior to Bloomberg, I led the subscriptions and user management at HBO. We redesigned the backend services to ensure that HBO could scale to meet the growing streaming demand.

This is back in 2015 when the app then had really not been built with the kind of scale that that HBO was starting to see. So um my team was brought in to modernize the uh entire application uh where we um containerized use. Guberti moved to the public cloud uh availed of the auto scale program and monolith into micro monolith into microservices the the full mix to ensure that we could seamlessly trade, you know, scale for high traffic shows like True Detective or uh Game of Thrones. Uh Prior to that, I worked on Skype for business for almost 10 years. Um So in short, I, I've been in the, you know, web development space for, for a long time for, for nearly 22 years. Um Outside of this, I'm also very active in the various diversity and inclusion circles. Uh I'm coaching, mentoring and sponsoring and they're all three different things. Uh leaders, both inside and outside. Bloomberg. It is my pleasure to introduce the panel on web development trends today.

Hopefully you're here for the, for that session. If not, uh come along for the ride, you'll perhaps learn a few things um that you can take back. I'm joined by three strong technical leaders and I let them introduce themselves, Jenny, would you mind starting?

Sure. Uh Hi, everyone. Uh My name is Jenny. Uh The team that I lead is part of the Bloomberg marketing engineering team like Puja mentioned earlier, we support over 100 market websites that are both the main products of Bloomberg, the company culture Bloomberg Industry Group and Bloomberg philanthropy websites. My team is full stack.

So we deal with anything from the coupon tis infrastructure that our websites are hosted on to the server side code. Uh And the funding components that are involved in that as well. Started at an interactive agency about 10 years ago. I date myself there. Um, and I worked at various companies and brands like CBS News and space.com. Uh I did web development work especially for their content work, websites. I became a manager about a little over two years ago. Uh and it's been a fun ride so far over to U Appalachia.

Thanks Jenny. Hi, all, I uh I'm Abilash and I'm a first tech developer at Bloomberg and I'm currently part of the Bloomberg multimedia engineering team. Uh Our team is basically responsible for serving all the content, all the multimedia content that you see on bloomberg.com as well as its uh customer facing site. So be it like the images, videos, even the audience that you see on bloom dot com are managed and handled by our team. Uh I being a full stack, I think I get to work on very diverse technologies ranging from javascript frameworks. Like next year's to even work working on applications based on Spring framework for Java. Uh I, I joined Bloomberg two years back uh fresh out of college. Uh This was my first job in the States, so it was a very nice experience. But despite being here for two years, I feel like I get to learn something new even every day. Uh Apart from that, uh I think uh uh so let me share this, like I, I received the opportunity to work with Bloomberg through a similar tech conference for women. So today, I'm glad that and as well as excited that I get to uh contribute back to this community by sharing my experience as a web developer so far and uh with you all. So, yeah, with that, I'll pass on to Chi.

Hi, I'm Chi. I'm from W A Brother Discovery, which is a new formed companies through the recent merger of W A media and Discovery, two very popular content and stream service providers. I've been working on backend service for the past five years on HBO Max and its earlier version HBO now. And HBO Go, HPO Max is one of the major streaming service in market. We currently have more than 76 million subscribers and support a wide range of clients including web apps and all major devices. I am leading the partner integration team which defines how we integrate with external partners such as video program distributors, telecoms, and other business partners to create a seamless user experience on subscription registration, authentication, and authorization for a Mac on all devices.

The team plays a very key role for the growth of HBO Max, both domestically and internationally. Um Before joining HBO in 100 million, I worked in laws on assistive technology language modeling. Um uh language, database tour, text predictions through and text input SDK for mobile device and automobile.

Before that I have worked on U I framework, architecture and design uh for Android device in HTC. And before HTC, I worked on video injection uh for MS NN video and video audio Codec for Windows at Microsoft. So you can see in summary, I have had a wide range of product ownership experience in multiple industries. I have worked with global teams and business partners across North America, Latin America Europe and Asia web development. Certainly is one of my favorite areas.

Thanks. Awesome. Um uh Jenny, maybe we'll start with you. What does web development mean to you?

Yeah. Um web means, you know, anything and everything that has to do with the internet. Uh It goes from the infrastructure that stands up the website, the backing code that provides the API connection to the database. Oh yeah, don't forget about the database. Uh I mean, that's, you know, where you store your content and the information that you need. Front end is also a huge part of web development and there's new technology almost weekly, especially to keep up with the innovations that's been happening from all aspects of web development in my opinion. What does is this moving flow of new creations which can be both complex and simplistic, you know, in terms of simplistic, we have new languages that give web development a lower bar of entry, especially for students. Well, web applications can be created to power huge marketing campaigns like sending emails uh keeping track of the email opens and delivery in the millions. Also taking into consideration of the users who will be using your product, right? It could be anywhere from figuring out solutions for low bandwidth accessibility, uh all different kinds of browsers and devices and even cultural differences.

Now people view a web application, there's endless possibilities and I can't wait to see what else we could view and what problems we can solve for.

Sounds like a lot. Uh But you also mentioned that it can be simple. So um uh hopefully some of that comes through in the, in, in the subsequent questions or discussion. Um Abilash, how did you become a web developer?

That's a good question. So I'm going to be honest here and say that I did not plan on becoming one. It just happened by accident, but now I'm so glad that it happened. Uh So to tell you my story, I had always been a backend developer before joining Bloomberg and had no experience with javascript frameworks. Uh you know, which are the bread and butter of a web developer. Uh But one of the advantages of joining Bloomberg as an entry level higher is that we are given this opportunity to choose our own team uh after the new hire training. So I was uh I uh when, while choosing my team, I was sure about one thing that I was open to learning new technologies. Uh But at the same time, I wanted to make sure that I choose a team whose products appeal to me as a user too. So uh when I came across this team called Multimedia Engineering, I was really blown away by the really cool products like uh you know, video player, which is used on everything that you see on all the video pages that you see on bloomberg.com. And not just that they also have the, they also manage uh the infrastructure as well as applications related to entire video streaming pipeline. So I was really interested in it. I was nervous that I did not know javascript.

But at the same time, I was really curious to learn how uh you know how to develop these web applications. It supports such a high traffic website like bloomberg.com which receives I think around a million users every day. So uh with that, I decide with that thought in mind, I decided to join this team. And that's my, that's how my journey uh to become a web developer began. Uh I think you would agree with me Puja that uh you know, most of the web developers are born in a similar fashion uh through their love for the web products that they are developing as well as the curiosity to learn some uh the new uh things uh work behind the scenes. Sounds

like a very happy accident to me. Uh Avila um expanding on that. You said you got the job almost by happenstance. Uh Once you got the job, did you have to hit the ground running? Uh If so, how did you manage that?

So, yeah, like I mentioned, I had never worked with Java to frameworks before and I was a bit nervous, but at the same time, I was curious and very willing to learn new technology. So, uh so that's uh so I uh one of the uh selling points I feel about Bloomberg as an organization is its mentorship culture. Uh Right, when I joined the team, I was uh given an onboarding buddy who also later on uh became a mentor and I gained so much knowledge from him. So uh uh he was always there to help me out whenever I had doubts. Uh He also exposed me to various communities and girls that we have within organiz within our organization. Uh And as well as he also uh helped me, you know, by scheduling regular catch-up sessions with me to make sure like I'm doing all right with the code base. So all of that really helped me uh ramp up real quick with the tech stack of our team. Uh But other than that, uh I would also like to mention that Bloomer provides this uh uh new entry level, new hire training to all the new hires, uh which helps you gain a lot of knowledge, not just related to web development, but also software development uh in general.

So again, that helped me, you know, uh gain a bit more knowledge about how industry processes work and how uh development process works. And, and uh in general, uh another thing I think I I would like to mention is that uh which helped me a lot in becoming familiar with the tech stack was just uh going through the whole code review process. Uh I learned a great deal about new technologies, uh not just technologies but library uh you know, new techniques and even new uh design patterns. So just looking at my teammates uh f uh full request. And at the same time, I was able to also broaden my own skill set. And uh it also helped me ensure that, you know, I was following the same good coding practices in my own pull requests too. So I think all of this helped me set up the floor, uh you know, where I can be productive most of the time. Uh Apart from all of this, I also feel like I joined Bloomberg at right, like uh right at a very good time because my team had just begun uh working on this school, new project called uh uh Quick Take, which is an OTP brand and Bloomberg, which also has its 24 7 live stream.

So we were supposed to make uh video pages for it and even though I was new on the team, I was clean, given this opportunity to contribute in all stages of this app development, right from uh beginning from, you know, uh uh uh having meetings with stakeholders and designers to scope out the technical requirements uh until you know, uh uh jumping on to a meeting to release the application actually in production.

So that was overall a really good experience for me and it helped me understand the different ins and outs of the entire web development process uh at such a large scale. So uh I think to conclude, I would say overall the support and encouragement that I received from the team as well as being able to be part of such a large scale project, right from the beginning helped me hit the ground running. I uh

what you said about learning from uh your teammates, you know, code reviews, looking at their full request. Uh I I think that that can't be understated. Uh I feel the same about learning from your uh teammates design, you know, design reviews as well, system design reviews. So really the scale that the learning can be scaled if it's not just the projects that you're working on, but also uh you know, from the projects that your colleagues are working on. I'm glad you shared that. Um moving on. Uh why is web development interesting based on your experience? Is this something you would recommend? And you mentioned in your intro, that this is an area that you're very interested in. But would you recommend this to, you know, the up and coming software developers or web developers?

Yeah. Um web development is very interesting. First and foremost, web development is a fast growing industry. There are tons of high paying jobs opportunities. Website is a basic need in almost every company and the base business um everywhere and all the companies are hiring.

Secondly, the work on web development can provide great satisfaction and a feeling of accomplishment. The release cycle of web products is usually very frequent. Uh I'm from like all different industries. So I have experience with other industries. Um A lot of web product um they follow the C I CD method which means continuous integration and continuous deployment. You would be able to see the impact of the of your work right away. You could be enabling a user to reach, choose for news and information from all over the world so that people can think and care beyond their daily lives. You could be creating more entertainment content for users to enjoy and relax. You could be helping with education by providing students access to high quality videos and curriculums. During the pandemic, you could be helping people to find the closest hospital or specialist during emergency. You could be making a platform for people to jump in their brilliant and pro ideas.

You could also be building system and tours fundamentally to help companies of different sizes to grow. So there are these web applications you could be contributing something really meaningful to the society while enjoying coding and web design. Finally, as what Jenny just mentioned, web development involves a very uh variety of technology from user face um uh U user interface design, front end development, uh mobile development backend development database, um data analytic and more a lot of channel in web development are open ended.

So it provides spaces for creativity and innovation. You will have a lot of choice uh to learn continuously and also expand your skill set. I would highly recommend a career on uh web development. Besides everything I just mentioned just now, um it is also a tech area that is very easy to enter. Currently, there are a lot of online classes, forums, blogs and training. Once you join a company and start working on real products, you will be able to learn from peers from uh internal training as uh like what has been mentioned in Bloomberg, right? And also the project um you are working on. So it's, it's um it doesn't take a long time for you to grow, to become expert in the field of your interest if you are motivated. Yeah.

Can you share a hard problem that you're trying to

solve um for the past year. Um At 1 million, one of our focus is on global expansion of HBO Max. We launched a product in Latin America and Europe, growing the landscape of HBO Max from us only to more than 60 countries. There are different privacy and legal compliance in different countries. Um There are also different, like a subscription model um and uh different type of distributors in different countries. Um So I'm again, I'm leading the partner integration and focus on uh registration, application, authorization and uh subscription.

So our system need to be aligned with local compliance. At the same time, we need to make it very easy to integrate with local business partners. Um Another thing is uh the traffic pattern or pro product has especially during popular shows and live sports um require the backend service, not only need to be uh highly scalable and designed for partition tolerance, but also need to be strong at like for tolerance and keep back between consistency and availability to handle both uh external and internal dependency.

There is no like absolute correct answer. That's why uh all the challenge are kind of open. And uh we are trying our best to use the best like architecture in the industry trying to achieve to uh achieve the best um to provide the best experience for the user.

That's what makes the job interesting, right? You don't have a playbook. Uh You, you have to problem solve and uh kind of um innovate on a continual basis. Um Cool Abhilasha, what are some things that we need to be excited about? In this space.

Oh, there are so many things I could think of. Uh like Jenny mentioned earlier, the world of web development is constantly changing and you know, that's why you keep seeing a continuous flow of new apps and websites. I think this also gives rise to new like languages, frameworks and libraries like what was existing few years back uh might not exist now or like there are there are there are like new things that are coming up to replace that. So I feel as a web developer in today's fast moving landscape, keeping an eye on these things changes is really important because when no one can predict the future, it's important to be in tune with the with where the industry is moving so that it helps you identify the right technologies that you would want to use in your future projects.

Uh Having said that I think uh amongst all the things out there. Uh uh Personally, I feel like single page and progressive web application development has been gaining a lot of traction. Uh especially because today's users are all about simplicity, but as well as speed and at the same time making sure that the application that you're developing has to be mobile friendly. So uh that is something that I'm really excited about. Uh And apart from that, I also recently read an article that during the Python 2022 conference, uh Ana Anaconda announced a new framework for pyre which allows you to use uh Python on the web development like web using standard STML. I think up until now, I had always seen Python being used in back end and, you know, uh for machine learning uh applications. However, uh now with Py, I think it opens a lot of opportunities and avenues uh you know, giving the developers best of both worlds. So I'm really excited to see how we can leverage this to make uh new, interesting and innovative apps even within our organization. I think that's what I really like about the space that it is constantly evolving and there's always something new to learn.

Yeah, it doesn't sound like uh you're gonna get bored anytime soon. Uh Jenny as somebody who has seen and uh uh done web development for uh several years. What are some things that you have to pay attention to when you're launching something new?

Yeah, that is a really good question, you know, and one of the things that we heavily concentrate on is testing, testing, testing, you're never able to cover every case, but at least you know what it was, you know, testing a Q A test on fraud, get testers who aren't familiar with your application.

So you'll see how, what kind of workflow that they use or what kind of pattern do they follow? It's also, you know, OK, to iterate, especially having phases of future releases, you don't have to now be stuck in a never ending project to fix every little bug and you just have to set the expectations and the priorities, uh, and go from there. You know, last thing is at least a part of testing is, you know, it's not a blame game. Uh, things happen, right. So it doesn't matter where the bug come from, how it exists, uh, you should work together to fix the issue and then just push forward on the more technical side, consider ability and performance. You know, how many visitors are you gonna get on the website or your app per hour per minute per day? You know, are you set up for D dossing? Are you making sure that your website can scale quickly automatically or manually? How fast is your website? Have you taken into consideration of being able to cash your website and that could improve both your performance and scalability? Think about, you know, where your bottleneck is on your stack. Uh Maybe your database isn't scalable and how do you accommodate that?

Look at which part of the website slows down, right? Think about, is it a slow port in your database? Is it being able to fetch multiple requests or maybe you just getting a slow response back from the server for each, you can just take each piece and see what you can improve on? And the last question which everybody had been mentioning because you know everyone has this is, is it mobile friendly. Everyone's got a phone, right. What if you were in the middle of a jungle with three G network? You really didn't know if its plant that you just touched with poison ivy. So, you know, this goes back to testing at the end of the day.

Yeah, I've heard some, some teams do this thing called blameless postmortems. You know, when there is a customer impacting issue and I like that phrase because it uh it's less about, you know, finger pointing and less about who caused, who potentially could have caused the outage.

But more about uh what systems went down, what were the gaps in our processes that led to this happening? And how can you know, how can we avoid this in the future in the future? So you do want to create spaces for uh uh I'm, I'm guessing having these conversations because that's how you solidify your systems. But um also do you want to take away the uh the potential of this becoming a blame game? Like you said, Jenny. Uh well, I would love to hear more and web development is a topic that would benefit from a deeper conversation. But in the interest of time, could you each share some advice for upcoming web developers? And after that, we'll, we'll take questions from the uh from our

attendees. Sure. Uh I think I can go first. Uh I feel like someone had, you know, given me this advice right at the beginning of my career, I would have benefited so much from it. But now that I have this opportunity, I would suggest uh uh all of the upcoming de develop web developers to always network. I think network is networking is really important. You know, you shouldn't be limited to interacting with just your team. Uh You should go out participate in girls and tech communities within your organization. Uh This will not just help you be on a par with, you know, other exciting things that other teams in your organizations are developing, but also help you expand your network. Uh The more people you meet, I think the more things you learn from them. So uh even attending conferences like this also helps network and helps you stay on top of the latest industry trends. So uh that is really important, I guess. Uh apart from that, uh I think what really benefited me as well as finding a good mentor early on in my career, uh I, I learned a great deal just from the experiences that was shared by my mentor with me. Uh Often, you know, it used to happen that they would have already seen a problem that I'm trying to solve and discussing it with them, helped me not re invent the wheel.

Uh At the same time, I feel analyzing the way their thought process works was also something that I benefited from because it helped me strengthen my own thought process too. Uh I think apart from this lastly, I would suggest that, you know, whenever you're developing a web application, make sure that you are interested in it as a user. Uh This not only makes the development process much easier and fun for you, but at the same time helps you understand the impact that you're making on the community with the application that you're developing, which helps you feel good about what you're doing at the end of the day.

So yeah, that would be my suggestion.

Uh I'll go next. So your advice I want to be with um go out of your comfort zone, try new things. It is important to build the technique gra to keep up with the latest technology advancement. Big challenge. Don't, don't fail to uh don't be afraid to fail. You practice your problem solving skills and critical thinking that always will benefit you long term, no matter which particular area, eventually you will choose to stay longer and always keep the passion and the curiosity. Another very important thing is um seek out for working environment that encourage you to learn new things. Also has the culture for the working environment. You need to have the culture and people in place to support you um for you to get over the hurdles when you, when you need it. So, I mean, NASA actually gave a very detailed example, right? Uh from her own experience. Um So that's be a sponge and learn as much as you can from people around you and from the project you are working on. Not just don't just focus on the task you get, you want to have a bigger view of the whole project, the product and the company, um other teams, what they are doing, right? And then be confident and proactive also in discussion and share your ideas and knowledge.

Don't be shy.

Yeah. Yeah, I completely agree with you. You know, don't be afraid to ask questions and definitely reach out to your fellow engineers when you're thinking about joining a new company or team, definitely bring out your communication style with the team and make sure that they're more than happy to help you mentor as you start out.

You know, those are some very important things, right? That are, you can think of a non technical aspect of it. Uh And then the last thing for me is really just, you know, read and write documentation. It might not be the most fun thing in the world, but it's definitely very useful. You'll look like you've done your homework, especially before you start asking questions in the future. You and your team will definitely thank you, especially when some people may have forgotten what they were.

So, you know, definitely keep those things in mind.

Uh Thank you. Um Let's let's answer some questions from uh from our attendees. Uh Sarah Ferguson asked uh Abilash questions for you how long do you spend on reviewing other people's code on a weekly basis?

That's a good question. So I do not have like a fixed time slot. It also depends on the number of full requests that have been opened, right? But I make, make it a point to, you know, reserve at the like uh in, in the entire day. I at least try to reserve the last one hour just to like go through other people's code so that I'm not blocking anyone from, you know, merging the full request and they have the reviews on time. So that helps me also, like, I feel like at the end of the day after I'm done with all the meetings, I'm mostly saturated to work on uh programming or like coding or work on, on my own full request. So that's why I reserve that one hour to be productive. Uh But at the same time, help others get unblocked by doing the code reviews. I hope that answers your question. Uh Cool.

Uh This question is for you, Jenny Vira Lakshmi pu asked uh as a lead developer, what are your responsibilities in comparison to a developer on your team? She's trying to understand um how to demarcate the roles of a tech lead and a web developer.

Yeah. Uh So there is definitely a difference of responsibilities between a tech lead and uh a developer. Um So I'll just kind of say that I'm more of a team leader or software manager and I lead my team, there are definitely tech leads on my team that do um architecture, for example, especially when a product is starting out. Um they're mentoring other developers as part of that. Um And then they also could be kind of improving internal developer workflow. I mean, those three are all open to uh all developers on the team. But you can distinctly see the difference when someone is taking the lead on a project and someone who's participating in the project. So I would say those are the three big things of differences between a tech lead and you know, just a regular web developer.

Um Cool II I, I'll chime in and add that. Uh uh the tech leader, the architect. Uh I, I've observed um looks at the project as a whole, comes up with the tech strategy and sometimes even helps define uh what the, you know, constituting modules are, which then can be rolled out to other developers on the team. Um Cool next question. Uh And I think this may have been answered uh the questions from um pretty uh Chan Chandi sacre. Uh I apologize if I, if I didn't pronounce that right. Uh But the question is, how do you stay up to date on all the different technologies involved in web, web development? I think Abilash uh answered this question with uh sharing um participating in tech communities skills uh going to conferences like this one, but I don't know, she uh or Jenny if you wanted to add anything more to that.

Actually, I mean, um our company, I think in all companies there are some like we, we use Slack so there are some like Slack channel, the peers uh around you. Actually, we have some discussion. Like people would look at different, like blogs, uh attend different conference and people will share if they found something interesting. I think that would be because uh I mean, website again, there are so so many information, sometimes it's hard, especially if you just enter this area, right?

So I would say start from um the community like you have the access and also you can discuss with people who may have read the same article and have been working on the same project, the product with you, right? And you can like uh come together to brainstorm, maybe like uh it, it applies to some part of the project and then you can even take the initiative to try to pro propose some idea. Yeah.

Yeah, because the problem is not of having enough information or trading material. The problem is that there's too much and so uh leaning on your network to be able to curate, makes sense. Uh Another advice is that you, you're spending a lot of your valuable time attending these con you know, attending this particular conference, listening to a bunch of sessions, make some notes see what you have learned and then maybe discuss it with a group of friends or colleagues or, or a network.

And uh as a as a way of discussing you internalize a little bit more. Um And I encourage those attending conferences in general to do that. Even, even our teams where if you go learn something, come back and share and then hopefully you create a culture where others do the same with you. Revathi Raj has a question. Um How difficult is it for someone who's experienced in a non tech job, move to web development? Would you recommend any particular language that's easy to start with like javascript or Python?

I can take that question. Uh I have two people on my current team who is an actor and an opera coach. So they decided to switch over to web development. Uh and, you know, one to go through boot camp and, you know, the other person went through a self taught too. Two amazing engineers. Um I think it's totally OK. I mean, I think a lot of people have done it and, you know, from my discussions with them, you know, they, they said it's, it's a lot of s similarities, right? There's discipline that's involved in, in, in their previous career, in their current career. And it's really just kind of your mind being in a different pattern uh logically, you know, especially for coding um in terms of what kind of languages I would suggest starting with, I would say javascript is a really big one is a great entry language. You can start even with React if you wanted to, if you're curious about fun and components. Um even Vanilla Javascript like just throwing something in the council log of, you know, chrome is literally writing javascript. You, you're coding already. Python is a great one too.

I think there's a minimum entry point. That way if you have a little bit more curiosity towards back end coding, if you wanna, maybe you really wanna decide you wanna read through um an Excel document and you want to kind of build out how to do that, Python. Perfect for that, but just start with something small, maybe uh something you can, you think you can make more efficient and then look up how to do it and just start coding. Yeah.

Um iii I there are, there are a few more questions but since we have two more minutes, uh I'll, I'll add to what uh Jenny said and also touch upon Shania John's question about imposter syndrome. It's OK to not have a conventional, you know, uh or what we call a traditional uh path to take, which has been pu your degree in computer science and then, you know, uh take a job in uh soft development. Instead it could be. Um I, I think uh Jenny mentioned boot camp. It could also be uh you know, learn your learn your software fundamentals. I think um sometimes folks um forget that fundamentals are so much more important than picking a particular platform or a particular framework. Um because frameworks are gonna come and go. Uh And once you have have a strong base, you can always build on top. And that also helps you build confidence, perhaps helps combat imposter syndrome a little bit. Having said that imposter syndrome is a syndrome is a real thing that we all face across all our disciplines. And so just be mindful if you're feeling it, many others in your place are feeling it too and just, just, you know, I guess, force yourself to keep marching on forward knowing that it's natural.

It's something that uh everybody goes through, but don't let that hold you back um in the interest of time. I think we have to stop now. But uh if you have more questions, I want to continue the conversation, we're all on linkedin. Uh We invite you all to reach out or you can also reach out to us in the Hoppin network. Thank you all. Thank you Chi Jenny and Abilash for joining.

Thanks. Thanks, Susan.

Thanks.

See folks joining the conference.